I think the approach we took (it’s been awhile) was the same as the rest of the podcasts: how did this work as a story? As Alastair kept telling us, it is a British cultural phenom, but we really weren’t interested in culture or why it had such impact. We just wanted to figure out what the hell was going on in the story, and we couldn’t find a throughline. (I really have to listen to this again; I could be remembering this completely wrong.)

So you’re absolutely right, we ignored the context. I think we always ignored the context in all of the films because what we were focusing on was how the story was put together. There are perfectly plotted stories that die on the screen (and on the page) so we never thought that good craft automatically meant good story. But the craft was so bad here that we kept trying to figure out how to fix it, missing, as you point out, the fact that it’s an important movie because of its cultural impact. We didn’t care, we just wanted to talk about craft.

I don’t like the Italian Job, I never have. In fact there are a whole host of British classics that I take umbridge with like The Italian Job and Damnbusters. But I feel like this discussion was poorly focused, the Italian Job is just not a good film for creative discussion in terms of writing a heist. Unless your sole intent was to look at a film that fails all of the criteria you’ve set for a heist.

It is fascinating however to look at as a cultural artefact, this film is so telling of British culture in the late sixties. A lot of Caines films from this era are. Get Carter is fascinating in terms of its context and so is Alfie in the way that it brilliantly subverts the age of ‘swinging Britain’. I suppose what I’m trying to express is how I feel that context was largely ignored in this episode.

Ps. I’ve only recently come across this podcast and am tearing through them as fast as I can and they are for the most part fantastic.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/07/italian-job-cliff-hanger-scene-uk/

How fortuitous….

You mentioned the V.I. Warshawski movie several times. I had that on a loop my senior year in college while working on my thesis on women in detective fiction. It truly has flaws that I don’t think purists of the books would ever forgive, but it’s not another Fletch. It’s more of the hair-tossing, tight jean, and leave out essential characters issues – as I recall. I could be really wrong though – that was going on 20yrs ago and time has not been kind to my memory in some ways:)

I’ve always liked this movie, and as a comedy it does it’s job. I like Eddie Murphy in it. This movie reminds me of how funny he is. I think the thing that for they did the best was the realtionship between the beverly hils cops and Axel. So for me as a mystery it doesn’t really work, but for the comedy it does.

Are you going to Who Killed Roger Rabbit? I haven’t seen it in a while but I remember it being really good.

KEITH! You’re back. We missed you. You probably didn’t know PopD was back because we’re terrible at self-promotion. Good to have you back, baby!

How did I miss the return of PopD???? This was one of my absolute favorite online discussions, and I thought (apparently mistakenly) it was on indefinite hiatus.

And how do I figure out what movie is being shown next?

SOOOOO glad to see this series is back!

I can’t believe I’ve never seen Beverly Hills Cop before. Any of them. I think my movie history must be lacking. Now though, I look back and wonder, have I ever actually seen an entire Eddie Murphy movie? Um… I might have to go with no.

“Two Manhattan careerists take 12 years to figure out they love each other.”

Just me or did they manage to make a totally charming and wonderful movie sound totally dull and boring? That takes talent, right?

In other news, I LOVE Hot Fuzz. Saw it in the theater several times, as I recall. And I still remember the first time I saw it where I didn’t know not to look when they kill Tim Messenger. I also love the black humor in this. “Ow. This really hurts.” You’re laughing like crazy and you feel so awful but you don’t care. Definitely humor and mystery done right.

I don’t mind the slow-seeming start to the movie, oddly enough. Heck, Timothy Dalton’s being so charmingly obvious from the getgo that you know something is going on.

I think maybe the problem here is that so far you’ve picked shows that had a gimmick. Maybe uh, look for ones that aren’t so gimmicked. I’ll even suck it up and watch “The Big Lebowski” even though I am the only person on the planet who doesn’t love it, and turned it off halfway through because I just wasn’t getting why it was so awesome and funny. I didn’t get what was going on (especially any time Maude does anything) and I only chuckled here and there. Sigh. Oh well, a fourth boner for me will be nothing

I haven’t seen the Miss Marple movies, but those are supposed to be comedic. That might be an idea? And I’d be down for Arsenic and Old Lace. But please don’t watch “Nothing But Trouble.” It is seriously one of the shittiest fucking flicks I ever saw in my life. The only part of it that isn’t godawful was the musical bit randomly put in the middle.

Oh look, Wikipedia has suggestions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Comedy_mystery_films

Oh, and so I remember to mention this before Lebowski:

http://rebecca-coates.suite101.com/the-big-lebowski-and-film-noir-film-criticism-a246370

http://elizabethfoxwell.blogspot.com/2010/01/dude-abides-big-lebowski-and-big-sleep.html

And weren’t you going to do Arsenic and Old Lace at one point?

The Bug Lebowski I haven’t seen for a while but the structure I think holds up to look at genre.

This is a tough genre. And for some reason Foul Play is impossible to find anywhere reasonably. I loved that movie.

I don’t know – what do you guys think?

Also, note to the male writers of this movie: if you wake up to find a guy you don’t know feeling up your chest, screaming and/or slapping (it’s the 40′s) are highly likely to ensue. COME ON.

There’s really only two good moments in the movie: Rachel Ward’s lines about (a) how to operate a phone, and (b) the penis rearrangement. And those aren’t even that good.

If I was going to rewrite a TV show for a novel, I think I might do Moonlighting. And switch the genders. It’s such a good premise.

I only really mention this because this made me really think about mediums that stories work in and how the method of storytelling may work quite well in one medium, but adaptation is necessary for a different medium. Which, I guess is kind of what PopD is about? I’ve noticed it before, specifically with the movie “Wanted” (James McAvoy! Angelina Jolie!) I’d not read the graphic novel the movie was based on before going to see it, and while it’s not the height of film making, it’s an enjoyable flick that works as a movie. I later picked up the graphic novel on which it was based and actually liked the movie MORE because I could see how beautifully the filmmakers had restructured the narrative to make it work AS A MOVIE vs. botching up the graphic novel -> movie transfer.

Anyway, I do need to track down the film version, if just to compare/contrast for myself against the televised Mystery! version. It’s probably the case that the reasoning for Poirot’s presence in the televised version was done to bring in more of Detective Hastings’ character development than in the film. And what was or was not included from the original source as well. Eh, either way, it was fun way to spend an evening, but I’m sad I didn’t get to see Maggie Smith and Diana Rigg!

I do think he was always a good guy, that he never crossed his own line. What he realizes is that you can’t make your own line, that the little stuff turns into the big stuff, but he was never tempted to deal drugs or murder, he just looked at his job like it was a game and he was the good guy so it was okay to cheat a little. He really turned from boy to man during the story, but i think she grows from girl to woman, too, and not just because she finally has great sex. She sees everything as clear cut, and he takes her into a world that’s all shades of gray.

I just freaking love this movie.

I find this a really interesting contrast with LA Confidential, as they both focus on corruption. But noir doesn’t allow its heroes to actually find redemption, and this one manages to make the point about the slippery slope and how important it is not to cross lines without doing horrible things to the protagonist at the end. Which may be why I prefer this.

@Jennifer: I too love the puking scene. I love the “even with your head in the toilet you still want to talk business” line. The way he says it is so sweet; that’s clearly something he loves about her.

(a) Anne sees the purse-snatcher, immediately swings her bag at him to trip him up, and grabs his ankle and won’t let go for anything. That is a tough girl, right there. I love her for that. (Also amusing is when Remy tells her to stay there and the little gesture she does like “Well, okay.”)

(b) The puking scene. The guy barely knows her and yet he’s sitting painfully precariously on the tub squeezing in there while she’s puking and wiping her mouth? That’s love, baby. I wouldn’t want to make out with someone with a mouthful of toothpaste, to be honest, but still sweet.

(c) The not-perfect-at-first-go sex scene is totally reminiscent of many Jenny Crusie sex scenes Now I finally know where “your luck’s about to change, cher” comes from too.

(d) Remy is a grown-ass hot man and a cop AND HE UNASHAMEDLY SLEEPS WITH A STUFFED SQUEAKY TOY GATOR. That is adorable. He actually cuddles with it while alone. Hell, he took it to bed. She wakes up the next morning and there’s the gator squeaking, and she’s not even surprised? She was aware of that gator during the nookie. Hmmmmm.

I don’t know if he was wooing her for political/distraction movies, out of sheer confidence that she’d never go after the likes of him, or smitten at first sight (probably a combo of the first two), but it’s adorable. Dude is smitten right off the bat and keeps it up even after the point where he feels betrayed. Wow.

When you think about it, this movie has a lot deeper inclinations than you guys went into. He goes into this movie thinking he’s a good guy and she forces him to see that he’s not really being one, and then he turns into one because she revealed to him that she thought he could do better. (Much like a line on Farscape, but you guys wouldn’t know about that one.)

I kept thinking about the whole Adrian Schoolcraft thing (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/right-to-remain-silent, also http://schoolcraftjustice.com/), because he was another cop who was proving corruption within the PD. Unfortunately in Schoolcraft’s case, he pretty much screwed over his career for life (and probably any other prospects for work, I guess) by doing this. Now, we don’t see the outcome of Remy’s situation here–for all I know what with the dead cops, maybe nothing came of it, maybe there was a situation like the end of LA Confidential– but I seriously wondered at the end if Remy had just 100% trashed his career and police family. They’ve got that cute scene at the end where they got married (kind of makes me wonder if they tacked that on at the last minute, but it makes me happy so whatever), but they’re alone in that moment. There’s no giant crowd of people partying with them. It made me wonder if Remy still had that family to celebrate with any more, and I suspect the answer is “probably not.”

Love takes you strange places sometimes. It made Remy a better man, but I wonder what happened after that. Not that I’ll ever know, of course.

And I’m so glad you liked it! Jenny and I spent so much of this podcast sounding really shocked that we liked it, and still feeling apologetic for inflicting it on you guys. But I really do think it’s good! I made Alastair watch it and he liked it, too. So it’s not a fluke – it’s a good movie! Yay!

Oh, I did guess who it was. They were way to interested in her life to not be the bad guys;) And they were always popping up when the plot needed them to, so they had to be the bad guys.

I liked this much better than my previous attempt. I had no idea it was so funny – and smart. I think it was the smart factor that kept me involved, too. I will say that this was a mystery that I figured out well before the detective – and that pretty much never happens. Hiding the object in plain sight is ancient wisdom and is even the way Agatha Christie began her career with Hercule Poirot. Just one of those things that sticks with me.

I thought that it was a good mystery, and the clues were all given. I thought it was great how they developed the mystery I just had a wierd reaction to the romance in this -maybe I’m a mutant?

I liked the movie but I’m not a big Audrey Hepburn fan. She’s beautiful to look at but that’s about it for me. In fact, I’ve tried to watch this movie several times and this is the first time I’ve made it past the 20 min mark. I finally ‘got it’ and it really was the comedy and the banter that pulled me all the way through.

Also: note to Audrey that if a guy is torturing you by lighting matches, waving them in your faces for 5-10 seconds before he drops them in your lap, repeatedly– you could always BLOW THEM OUT. I’m just saying.

I was watching the commentary and they said something about Walter Matthau playing it under the wire with being goofy and funny so that you didn’t figure out he was the killer. That certainly worked, and then I didn’t red-flag him until he assigned the meeting place. Silly me, isn’t everyone but her having some sort of twist here?

Eh…maybe something’s wrong with me because I don’t love most of these movies.

I second the “oh, wait, he’s falling in love with her now?” reaction.

I felt like they started with Mark, but then I was expecting Waldo’s POV from the first scene in the book. Once they get out of the bathroom, Mark is the one asking questions, stirring the pot with Shelby, confronting the aunt about her relationship with the fiance. Waldo is just along for the ride making sarcastic remarks. The hideously long flashback is also straight out of the book, I think. Maybe where they went wrong here was trying to be faithful to the book for the first half and then throwing parts of it out in the second half? I suspect they were cutting it down for time.

That episode of Moonlighting is one of the ones I actually like. Been a while since I saw it, but I remember thinking of it as “the Laura episode.” The scene with Maddie listening to the tapes was really good.

I hate to say this since Jenny and Lani are both so tired of noir, but, well…Laura is definitely noir. In fact I think it’s more noir than Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. I love it, but I have some doubts about how the romance is going to be rated. The mystery is excellent though, so that’s something. Can’t wait for The Big Easy – one of my favorites.